Please LISTEN to me, Trucker

Trucker, you misunderstand what 28 was trying to say (though, as I said elsewhere in this thread, he could have explained things better in his post). You don't have to get outright "touchy" with a girl in order to be accused of "abusing" her. If you are perceived as getting "flirty" with her--and that takes merely words, not physical touches--you can also be accused of something illegal. You can be accused of "corrupting a minor" or some other bullshit accusation with real legal ramifications. It can result in, at the very least, an embarrassing and violating visit by the police or an irate parent at your home, with the entire neighborhood looking on. If you live with relatives, the embarrassment of the situation could escalate, especially if the girl's parents tell everyone in the community about what a "dangerous pervert" you are. And such a visit will give any relative of yours who does not like you beautiful ammunition to use against you that few would openly disagree with. If I got into the hot tub with a small group of young adolescent girl cuties, it would be difficult not to be caught staring at their bodies, which I believe to be goddess-like in perfection. If an adult catches me doing so, or with giving these cuties too much attention, they may decide to ask me--or gossip amongst each other--about how "creepy" it is for a "grown man" to be seen overtly enjoying the company of such young individuals. Why can't I go and seek out company with the 36 year old "babe" with the sagging breasts and wrinkly face at the other end of the hot tub instead? That would be seen as more "normal" and socially acceptable, and certainly much less "creepy." That is what they will all say. Do you like having comments of that nature said about you behind your back, Trucker? Do you realize the consequences that such gossip can have for you? Do you want to deal with the nasty feeling in your stomach that you get when some nasty parent comes up to you and requests in no uncertain terms that you cease talking to her daughter? Also, I resent your frequent statements that those who do not routinely make friends with girls in our AoA or regularly invite them over our house for overnighters or chat them up in hot tubs are somehow self-hating or living a life of fear. Sometimes fear can be healthy, especially if it keeps you out of jail, or keeps irate parents out of your hair. Or keeps the negative gossip at bay. I am open about my hebephilia in public. Is that a sign of self-hatred or shame? Is my concern for my personal security and for the well-being of the girls in question really a sign that I am depriving myself of "living the life"? I am open in real life about being a youth liberationist too, btw. That will hardly endear me to many people, but because I think it's the right thing to do, I take no shame or hesitation in being open about it if I am asked. There is no self-hatred in me regarding my attraction to young AGs, and I imagine the great majority of us on this board are not self-hating either. Being realistic and our avoidance of taking unreasonable risks in this type of climate is hardly a sign that we are self-hating or depriving ourselves of life's great pleasures. I routinely spend my time befriending and seeking romantic liaisons with much younger women in the age range of 18-early 20s. That is not exactly what I would prefer to have more than anything else, but it's as close as I can get to what I want legally, many of these young women still retain much of the personality traits and attractive physical features of younger adolescent girls, and it's entirely legal to seek social and romantic relationships with them. I take a lot of flack from their parents and my family for courting and befriending such young women, but I don't care if it's socially acceptable or not. But I do have to care if it's legal. So I hardly tailor my behavior to satisfy society, but I feel I have no choice but to tailor it around the legal system and in such a way that I do not end up in jail. To me, routinely courting and befriending young women in the age bracket of 18-early 20s is the closest thing to "living the life" of a hebephile that I can legally have, so I do it without shame and without reluctance. But younger than 18 is bear territory, dude. I must say that I think you should re-assess your choice of role model in this community. And you should also be less hesitant to judge people who are careful to stay out of bear territory and commend those who are brave enough to at least stand up to the system without expecting them to go further, or without doubting their self-respect. And btw, you now have me referring to the LEOs as "bears." I see you call them that so much that now I call them that. I hope you're satisfied.